that currency thread
Aug. 21st, 2021 11:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
a few days ago, i was talking to a few friends about currency, and how the value of a dollar or a pound sterling really changes depending on where you live. we live in three different countries, two of us shared the same currency for most of our lives. one expensive lunch in the UK was half ouf our rent or groceries for us for a month. It did come across at a time where I noticed that in some fandoms, zines and anthologies appear to be growing more common. "it's only $40, and you get all of these exclusive fics and art content only if you buy this zine" was often the pitch. There were also some developments in other fandom spaces where people were saying “you have no excuse to buy X, because it’s only $20!!” Which, hm.
a few days ago, i wrote a thread about how currency and the value of a dollar changes depending on where you live and the currency you earn. spending power with USD, EUR, AUD, GBP, SGD, JPY, and CNY are all strong currencies, increasing spending power. it is easy to talk about it is only $20 when you earn in those currencies, but for the rest of us, ah, not so much.
i earn in Philippine peso. the currency rate is pegged at USD 1 = PHP 50. Doing the math, $20 is PHP 1,000.
In the US, $20 is a good meal, or a book, or 2 hours' wage in some states (bless cities or states with $15/hr).
Here, $20 is my grocery bill for two weeks. It is my transport/commute budget for 5 days, or my food budget for 5-10 days. It is 1-2 days' worth of wages. It's a lot of money.
I don't think people recognize just how big the disparity is. So when people say things are only $20, or even only $10, ah, it's not really an only. Not for a lot of us who earn outside of those currencies.
The other thing is, for us who live outside the US, EU, Canada, Australia, Singapore, Japan, China, Hong Kong, or the like-- we aren't considered major markets, and so some things come to us much slower. That is if they ever come to us at all. There's often a high chance that it will never come to us, no matter how much we ask, because we're not a market consideration.
So sometimes, when people pirate things, I can see why. Some like to say that in the age of Netflix and things like Amazon, book depository and international express shipping, there is no longer any reason to pirate.
But sometimes there is -- sometimes there is just no access to it, or sometimes people simply cannot afford it. It's not always "i'm lazy"; sometimes it's "i don't really have a choice if I want to enjoy this thing I love." I don't think people should be proud of pirating things, but I can see why they would. (Buy an original copy when you can though, lol)
I see a lot of people watching Netflix on their phones on the way to work. But equally i see a lot of people pirating anime that isn't on Netflix, because we have no access to Crunchyroll or Funimation. But i have seen that if people have the money and are given the access to it, they'll buy it. Just let them have access to it… and that does include currency access.
Nothing is ever "just" $20.
Now, I am aware that there are issues with poverty and access within the big currency countries, but I think that is a separate discussion that has to be had on its own. I am speaking specifically to the lack of access that we get as people who live outside, and do not earn in the currencies, of the US, Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, Singapore, or China, which are usually seen as the bigger markets.
Currency and Commodification in Fandom
I’m no big fandom name; I’ve written a couple of fics here and there and they’re good quality, nothing spectacular or special. I love them though; I love the process of creation and I love sharing them with people who want to read it. I buy both official merch and fanmerch when there’s something that catches my eye. I've commissioned people before; my icon is by the ever-lovely shabbylines on twt (commission her, she's wonderful). I have watched Haisute, Epik High, BTS, and attend the Untamed fanmeet in Thailand (hell I would have gone to the Nanjing one too if I didn't need a visa and could score tickets). I have a truly ridiculous amount of Otabek Altin art and Haikyuu! merch, both official and unofficial; my favorite plush toys are both official and unofficial. I have the capacity to do so because I work in a fairly stable corporate environment in a multinational company. In this case, I am extremely lucky, because not a lot of people are able to do the same.
But still, watching the slow crawl towards commodification in fandom has made me uneasy.
Fandom was once based on a gift currency agreement, often in the form of fic and fan-art, and a sense of community was fostered around this understanding that this, for the most part, is for free. The understanding of fandom was this is a shared space for enthusiasts of an IP; this is a hobby, something to do in your free time away from whatever else you do in the day. Of course it wasn't without its problems, and the nature of online means you need an internet connection; racism, misogyny, and homophobia in fandom is still a problem today especially in danmei fandom. But the barriers for entry then were just that: a computer and an internet connection, and it's off to the races.
(Of course the reasoning for that is not egalitarian or utopian: quite simply, the understanding then was that we are all using an IP that is not ours and to blatantly profit off another IP is illegal and is grounds for copyright infringement. It wasn't without teeth either: Anne Rice is notorious, as are Sanrio and Moomin, for sending cease-and-desist notices as well as threats of lawsuits. Japan's doujin festivals are pay for production (P4P), as is MXTX and the larger danmei fandom it seems at the request of the authors and IP holders; there is an unspoken agreement to not profit using someone else's IP because it puts the entire fandom at risk of lawsuits. Archive of Our Own has an unrelenting policy about linking to any site that even suggests payment to the author of any fic on their site because they understand that if one displeased IP holder sees that a rando on the internet is profiting off their works, it puts the entire Ao3 in jeopardy.
With the mainstreaming of fandom, I think a large part has forgotten that the IPs aren't ours to begin with, and to profit off IPs that aren't ours is illegal thanks to copyright and intellectual property rights law. "It's free marketing," is what it's usually justified as, and that's correct! It is free marketing and community engagement. The only reason that others have not clamped down on fandom is because they have likely calculated that potential profits lost are within an acceptable range ("marketing cost"). But it doesn't mean they will always view it that way, especially if someone like Disney decides to do a comprehensive market study on how much money is generated through the fandom economy. There was a good thread about copyright, takedowns, and the risk of monetizing fandom here.
But I digress.)
With the current trend of commodification in fandom (outside of danmei), there is a risk of fans simply being priced out by other fans. It’s not to say that fandom goods are not a necessity; they are a luxury. I understand that. I fully support artists who are trying to build their portfolios via commissions. I wholeheartedly oppose any theft of small creators' art and works; there is a special place in hell for people that do nothing but repost content on IG, tiktok, and FB groups. But I think it is still best to acknowledge that the increasing commodification of fandom is erecting barriers to entry where there weren't any previously, and it divides those who can afford it and those who cannot. Whether it's a $40 zine or a VIP access to translations with no other access, those are barriers to access and, in the case of translations, enter a fandom altogether.
Because as I discussed earlier: it's not just $40.
For those that earn in stronger currencies, it is easier to earn that $40. For those that don’t, whether the rate is 1:50 or 1:100, we have to work much harder to get that $40 — we have to work to 2,000, or to 4,000 before we can afford anything. And this is not to include the issues of shipping, which can cost the same as, if not more than, the product we wish to buy. Adding it altogether, the cost is prohibitive, or just not feasible.
This is not to say that there should be no commissions or zines, or other fanmerch or that translation groups are necessarily wrong for charging fees, especially when the purpose is to ensure support for the author.
But I don’t agree with the thinking that fandom is just another avenue to monetize at will. While I understand that people also use fandom as a means to supplement their income — and I understand that there are also those who use it as a sole means of income, which is a rather precarious situation given that the ownership of the IP is not theirs — at the end of the day, it is a hobby.
It might be that this thinking was borne out of hustle culture that millennials and Gen Zers are stuck with: there is a pervasive line of thought that to do anything that is not revenue-generating is a waste of time. Monetize your hobbies! Do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life! Unless you’re getting paid doing it, it’s a waste of time.
(Poisonous thinking)
Fandom was born as a shared community, something done for fun. One thing that made fandom unique in the first place is that things are shared without the expectations of any monetary compensation; from the heart, right?
Unless this is a sole means of income, it isn’t a job, and neither should it be a replacement for a personality. This is a niche space on the internet celebrating the love for an IP, a community with which you share that love (don’t be a dick, dude). Treating it as another avenue for monetization does have adverse impacts on the community that fandom is built around, and that includes the exclusion of people who are priced out simply because they can’t afford to be there.
Barriers to Entry
Because given the geographical circumstance of where we are born, we are already automatically excluded from so much of the “official” access by means of region-locking and lack of distributorships, as we are not seen as a good enough market. Whether this is official distribution being delayed or withheld altogether, or big-ticket events, or non-release in other languages, there is an expectation of exclusion already. To travel to other countries to attend big-ticket events is just not sustainable in the long-run.
It’s why many turn to fandom: because this is another avenue to enjoy with other like-minded individuals, to exchange stories and art and share, to participate in an economy that went against the expectations of monetary payment and compensation, that wasn’t dependent on how much money you had or where you lived. Fandom prided itself in being counterculture, in operating outside the capitalist expectation, and as a result, being welcome to all.
But when that space also starts to become commodified, well, then the usual barriers to entry start appearing as well. Because nothing is “just” $20. With the inclusion of a $20 surcharge to access a tier or an anthology or zine or collection, it becomes a greater discussion of whether one should put aside a budget of two weeks of groceries to afford a zine to access the works of authors and artists, where that discussion did not exist at all.
And while this is not yet the norm, it is popping up enough that fandom should at least start considering what this means for the community. Community cannot come in “tiers”: the people who will have advanced access and those that don’t; the people who can afford the exclusive zines and those who can’t; the people who can access translations, and those that can’t, etc., with the expectation that everyone will treat each other “the same” or “equally”. With those tiers comes an inequality of sorts and a resentment, and ultimately, fragmentation (and DRAMAAAA).
And while I and many would say fandom goods is a luxury, someone did correctly point out that the sense of community that fandom brings, especially in fandoms that are predominantly queer online, are a necessity.
Hobby or Business?
Fandom as a community needs to at least examine the direction in which it is going, because if for-profit projects are becoming more common, not only does it have to figure out what it will do about IP violations, but it also has to determine whether this is still going to be treated as a hobby by default, or more of a business.
In reply, someone said “so you’re asking me to treat fandom as a HOBBY?”
Well, yes. Because it is a hobby. None of us own the IP, and a lot of us are not being paid by an employer to fandom. Our participation in fandom, whether as a creator or consumer, is entirely voluntary, and the nature of our participation is up to each participant. It is a hobby, not a business, because what people do in fandom, ostensibly, is for free.
But of course, if fandom does choose collectively to continue monetizing works and prioritizing for-profit works and tiered systems, then fandom has to realize that it is no longer operating as a hobby, but instead with a small-scale business model.
Once money is involved, it is no longer about “community” or “I do this in my free time; it’s just a hobby”: it’s about delivering goods or a service that was promised in exchange for whatever amount that was. It cannot be that a creator or translator says “I do this in my free time” and then the audience expects monthly updates every Friday at 6PM on the dot, and are upset when it doesn’t arrive. On the other hand, it cannot be that a person says “For $20, I’ll deliver X product by Y date, this is a sample of my work,” and then deliver a substandard product, and/or be late with the deliverables. It definitely cannot be “dude just trust me” when money is involved.
The exchange of money is a contract and an expectation: I will pay $20 expecting that I get a product after X amount of time up to a certain standard. There is now an expectation of professionalism and critique, because if a person is going to pay $20 for a volume, then it is fair for the customer to expect that the standard of that volume to be worth $20 and protest if they find that it is not.
It sounds cold, but money is cold, and once money is involved then it is now a business. And with business comes expectations.
Because again, it’s not “just $20.” That $20 is someone’s groceries, or two days’ wage. Given the global nature of fandom, that reminder has to be at the forefront.
Aftermath
Now this is where I got a lot of personal attacks. I don’t mean some people disagreed with me on the above points.
I do mean complete strangers that told me I don’t understand pricing, production, real life, the economy; those who called me delusional, a freeloader, an idiot, naive, selfish, someone who just doesn’t want artists or translators to get paid, an asshole, or, I was simply told: “you don’t belong here.” I tried not to look, but I am an idiot.
I had people telling me in the replies “if you can’t afford to be in fandom, then you don’t belong here.” I was also told: “It sucks that your country’s economy is so bad but that’s just how it is. Fandom is a luxury, too bad, you just have to accept it and if you can’t afford it then you can’t.” I was also told: “this whole discussion just reeks of someone who is bitter that they can’t afford fandom.”
Someone said, "damn if you can't afford it then just wait until it comes to your country, duh." That's the problem: it just never will.
Given where I was born, I was always told I don’t belong in certain spaces. I am by default not allowed to enter certain countries and spaces without going through lengthy approval processes and without being able to prove I can afford being in that space. My entire career was built on proving myself worthy to be in this space, to share space and hold my own in a space reserved for white men.
I earn in PHP, not in USD, as I made clear earlier in the thread, and earlier in this post. To tell me I don’t belong in a place or that I don’t deserve to be in a space based on the place I was born and the currency I earn is casual discrimination in a smaller scale, and one that is not often thought about by the people perpetuating it. And to experience it as bluntly as that above — well, let’s say I have never felt as alienated in an online space than I did about four days ago, but it is an alienation I feel regularly in my real life, especially when I visit the USA.
Besides, I never said anything about artists or translators not deserving to be paid. I just said to consider where those who do not earn, but have to pay, in USD are coming from.
It’s not “just” $20. I don’t take issue so much in the $20, but in the “it’s only.” Because for other people who earn in USD, it can be an “only”. For us that don’t, it’s far, far more expensive than anyone who earns USD by default. And while right now it’s still in price ranges that are still “doable” or attainable (with of course some exceptions to the rule, such as professional art commissions) if it continues on an upward trajectory, then inevitably fans from other parts of the world will eventually be priced out of fandom itself.
A lot of people took this opportunity to dunk on me and call me the above things, which was unpleasant and caused me quite a bit of anxiety. They also took this opportunity to derail the conversation away from my original point of currencies having different values depending on the country where it is being spent or earned and to keep that in mind, to a completely separate discussion of whether artists deserve to be paid or not.
That’s not even up for discussion. Creators do deserve to be paid, and I have never said otherwise. I have never questioned the motivation for commissions, whether written or drawn, regardless of what I feel about IP and copyright law.
What I am saying though is that if things continue to be profit-centered and at an increasing rate, then a lot of people will be priced out of fandom or confined to a different “tier”, and that fandom has to expect less community and more transactional experiences.
It is also a point of privilege to be able to argue whether the barrier for entry is there at all when people who are already experiencing those barriers for entry are telling you it is there. “It’s only $20” is also “damn, it’s PHP1,000.”
For every QRT I got calling me a selfish bitch who is just bitching because I can’t afford fandom was another person saying “20 is a month of groceries and I really have to budget out my purchases for the thing I want.”
To derail a conversation about currency inequalities presenting a challenge to access certain things in fandom and make it about “you’re just bitching because you’re too poor to afford commissioning an artist” and “but what about the right of an artist to make money” is also not a great look.
Someone replied “stop making it a class discussion.”
It is a class discussion. Fandom doesn’t operate in a bubble. Only certain classes can afford certain experiences: Comic Con, purchasing a $300 artbook, being able to access tiers in advance. That is a class issue. That has always been present, and the commodification of fandom only exacerbates that issue. Just because you don’t feel it doesn’t mean it does not exist.
All I did is add that there is a currency discussion that goes beyond just the class discussion, and to be aware of that.
If fandom collectively decides to go in that direction then that’s fine, but the community has to be aware of the additional barriers to entry, accept it as a consequence of growth, recognize and accept business standards and professionalism, and drop any pretense of remaining counterculture or anti-capitalist, or whatever progressive term it wants to use.
For something that started as counterculture, as a means for women to get together and enjoy Star Trek together, for a bunch of nerds wanting to share what they love together regardless of where they come from, that’s a bit sad, isn’t it? At the heart of it, fandom is about community: a space for like-minded individuals to congregate and share love of a Thing together, and sometimes even make friends!
I don’t have any answers, I’m no big-name person. I’m literally just some guy. I’ll probably exit fandom altogether again in the next couple of years, depending on whether I find another title to be obsessed with, I dunno. I lived outside of fandom for 10 years and on the fringes of others. But it has given me a sense of community at a time when community outside was impossible, has fostered a love for sharing stories simply for the pure joy of sharing, and I have made so many friends in these little corners, and it would be a pity for that to vanish into the (at times inescapable) maw of late-stage capitalist bullshit.
Anyway, what do I know lmao I’m just some rando on the internet peace out
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Date: 2021-08-21 04:30 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2021-08-21 04:32 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2021-08-21 05:41 pm (UTC)Just taking the time to recognize who is being left out by monetizing something is something we should all be thinking about.
Thank you so much!
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Date: 2021-08-22 03:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-08-22 03:50 pm (UTC)Thank you for writing it! You've explained really well something I was struggling to put into words. Fandom spaces are very US-centric, and there's this (growing?) trend of monetization of fandom (which for me, by definition, is a hobby based on mutual love), and yeah. It's very important to note that things are not as easy as "just 20$".
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Date: 2021-08-22 05:44 pm (UTC)1. yes! I still agree! I'm mad at how many people (deliberately?) misread what you were saying!
2. this is a little tangential to the main point, but it really kind of gets my back up to see people from colonial/imperialist powers that have directly contributed to currency of different countries being less valuable being like, "well MAYBE you should have been born in a country that did the colonizING instead of being colonizED!" honestly. Genuinely wondering how much world history the people accusing you of not understanding economics are familiar with.
3. again a little tangential, but I was thinking about this because of how much MDZS/CQL is idol-adjacent - So much of idol fandom is about consumption and buying - one of the many things that turned me off of kpop was the emphasis on buying/streaming/spending money on releases - and as idol fandom trappings spill over into other media fandoms, I wonder if that's driving some of that emphasis on consumption/collection. Either way, I'm sort of worried about how fandom is going - monetizing fandom is going to choke a lot of expression out of it.
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Date: 2021-08-23 08:54 am (UTC)But yeah 2 is something I don't really want to bring up but like -- whyyyy do you guys thing we're so poor in the first place lol!! Some people will really rail against imperialism while turning a blind eye to the ways they are privileged by being born to a colonial country.
3 - ooh that is interesting, maybe? I haven't quite put that together yet, but that is something I will be thinking about!!
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Date: 2021-08-22 09:25 pm (UTC)it's just that monetizing fanworks is an individualized bandaid over the problem at best and at worst it's a bunch more problems, which apparently people hear someone saying that as someone not understanding the problem of wages being so et cetera
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Date: 2021-08-23 12:13 am (UTC)This also made me think about fandom auctions, which wow! Talk about a crunch point for currencies vying with each other.
But I like to think there will always be corners of fandom that are free and (hopefully) welcoming, whatever happens. ♥
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Date: 2021-08-23 06:57 am (UTC)Thank you for this.
Date: 2021-08-23 05:24 pm (UTC)It's *not* easy. There *aren't* simple solutions -- but pretending that everything is fine and that fandom is just a larger, more inclusive version of what it was in the '60s and '70s is the height of *dangerous* self-delusion.
I'm so sorry you've been attacked for shining a light on all of this. You deserve far better -- and, ultimately, so does fandom.
Re: Thank you for this.
Date: 2021-08-26 06:44 am (UTC)It absolutely is not easy and I think fandom is just a microcosm of societies at large -- the good and the bad, even if we want to focus more on the good. But there are creeping issues and i do think they need to be addressed.
Thank you -- their reading comprehension is not my responsibility, but ngl lol i moved here for longform thoughts instead of twitter because yes I do deserve better than getting dogpiled haha. And fandom does deserve better than constant dogpiling, harassment, and tier systems.
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Date: 2021-08-23 06:02 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2021-08-23 06:12 pm (UTC)Here, $20 is my grocery bill for two weeks. It is my transport/commute budget for 5 days, or my food budget for 5-10 days. It is 1-2 days' worth of wages. It's a lot of money.
YES. This is the same for me as well. I am so grateful that Fandom has remained affordable and accessible to me for going on 20 years now.
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Date: 2021-08-23 06:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-08-24 03:19 pm (UTC)The monetization of fandom issue is really complicated and complex, but you remind us that it's not played out in front of an even playing field! Thanks!
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Date: 2021-08-23 07:43 pm (UTC)It's just a theory.
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Date: 2021-08-24 02:06 am (UTC)I'm also in BTS fandom, and affordability issues are *real* there. I absolutely understand the pirating that goes on.
Thanks for writing and sharing this.
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Date: 2021-08-26 07:13 am (UTC)From one BTS fan to another, my sincere sympathies for our wallets x__x
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Date: 2021-08-24 04:43 am (UTC)Fandom should have a low barrier to entry, always. And I'm horrified that people mocked you for not being able to afford what they can.
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Date: 2021-08-26 07:15 am (UTC)It was horrifying and I'm still processing it, but thank you for your understanding!!
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